Last year I was fortunate to go to a conference held by VANISH about adoption issues. Evelyn Robinson, a birth mother turned social worker and author, was one of the key speakers. I must say that this day, for me, was life changing.
Evelyn spoke about a concept that I have never heard of before; disenfranchised grief. I was to later learn that Kenneth Doka coined this term and wrote about it in his book called Disenfranchised Grief: Recognizing Hidden Sorrow. Doka states that this is “Grief that persons experience when they incur a loss that is not or cannot be openly acknowledged, publicly mourned, or socially supported” (Doka, 1989, pg.4).
Evelyn spoke about how this type of hidden grief operates in adoption and I could instantly see the paralells it had with my situation and donor conceived people's grief. It explained so much of what I had been feeling for the last few years. I felt that I had lost half of my family and the relationships with my father and all of these people, yet I did not feel that I could express this until quite some time later. Even now I do not feel that I am completly understood in this regard. I hid my sorrow, because of many reasons. Firstly, being told that I was so "wanted" and "special" meant that I did not want to show my sadness. From what everyone around me was saying I should be happy that my parents went to so much trouble to have me! There was no way in my mind that I could ever see myself expressing my true feelings, let alone anyone acknowledging my loss and pain.
Even though I am able to speak about my feelings now, my loss is still not acknowledged, it is definately not something that is publically mourned or socially supported. The vast majority of the public are so blinded to the long term effects of this practice. What most see is that it is so wonderful, as it gives a couple just what they wanted, a child to love. That is the happy ending, right? That is what is most important! How could anyone dispute this practice as being anything but good? (note sarcasm)
What I have always wondered is how can anybody, especially those who take for granted knowing their identity and their history, look past the effects seperating someone from their family really has? I often wish I could have the same powers as that guy in the Green Mile. Hold someone's hand (I have often thought this would be great to do with some politicians or fertility doctors), and let them truly feel the pain, sadness and loss that I have over the last 8 years.. all in one hit. I think people would realise then, but mainly people's lack of compassion and unwillingness to put themselves in someone elses shoes means that this practice will continue to fool people. Just like that big fast food chain claims it's meals are "healthy" at any cost, the fertility industry will spout any old line to keep raking in the money. "Sure there are no long term consequences!", "All they need is love", "Everything will be just FINE!" (now give us your money!).
I have thought about this a lot, as you can probably imagine. Something that I think helps to perpetuate this fantasy that donor conception is a fantastic and revolutionary practice are the labels used to change and distort the relationships that truly exist. The word donor for instance is one of them. I find this term highly offensive. He may have donated his sperm to my mother, to my parents, but he did not donate his sperm to me, as I was not yet alive! He is my biological father, and calling him otherwise hides the true connection that we have. This is one reason, I believe, why my loss is not recognised. Everyone says "He is just the DNA", "He did not raise you, so he cannot be your father!", and so on. To that I say bull! No matter what way you look at it he IS my biological father. He is more than just DNA, he is a part of me, my identity and who I am today. I walk with his influence everyday. I carry his traits, his families traits with me everyday. And the other day I remembered that the sperm determines the sex of the resulting child. So he is the reason I am a woman!! He may not have raised me, but he will always be my father. There is no denying it. Call him whatever you want, but I can see that people are just trying to distort reality for their own satisfaction, for their own cause, for their own position.
The fact that T5 is not a part of my life is a major loss to me. Not being able to know him and my paternal family is... indescribably hard.
So this concept of disenfranchised grief gave me something to look to... a name for what I had experienced. I remember coming home and just being blown away by Evelyn's speech. I sat and cried, but this day I cried happy tears. "I am not going mad!!!!", I thought. "I have a name for it, my sadness makes sense! It is real. Thank God!!!"
Sometimes I wish I could have some sort of public ceremony to recognise my loss. But this wouldn't really work. I have thought about this a lot too. T5 may be alive or dead, but I do not know if he is either. And what if he were to appear in my life later on? How could I possibly mourn his absence, if there is the possibility that he might come into my life one day? I feel as though it is so important that my loss and other donor conceived people's losses are acknowledged. I am not sure exactly how. Perhaps a good start is that the public start listening to people like myself and not write us off as a disgruntled few.
I believe that there might only be a few people like myself speaking out even in years to come. It is so hard to do this. I have been to this posting page so many times over the last few weeks and felt physically ill at the thought of writing about this. It takes so much energy, that I don't blame other donor conceived people for sitting back and letting a handful of people speak on their behalf. This is what has happened in the adoption community, here in Victoria, Australia anyway. With time I am hoping however that more people come forward.
I'm reading a book at the moment about an adopted woman. She had a really hard life and chose to write about it so candidly. She reiterated my feelings about why some people (adopted and donor conceived) choose not to venture into finding out about their history: "It is my belief that even when an adoptee claims to be a non-searcher, they are at some level, conscious or not, curious about their origins" (Seitz, 2001, pg.100). People often think that I am prescribing my own experience onto those who say they do not wish to know anything about their true genetic origins when I say "Actually I think they really do want to know and just don't want to open Pandora's box...". However the more I read adoption material, the more I speak to donor conceived people, the more I can see that there is a lot of truth to my instincts about this. All I can think is this: Regardless of what kind of relationship a donor conceievd person might want with their biological parent/s, how can they deny that these people helped to create their identity? How could someone not want to learn more about themselves? People who say they do not wish to know, I believe are using a coping mechanism to survive. And once again, I don't completely think this is bad, each to their own, however I think that for them to even admit that they want to know more would be recognition that they do feel some loss. I believe that for some people it is just far too hard to acknowledge, even to themselves.
Ok. Well that is all I have to say right now. Oh and if you haven't guessed it yet, the answer to that question in the previous post, ("What about children whose parents have died and whom they have not yet met?"), the lecturer replied, "Disenfranchised Grief".
Evelyn spoke about a concept that I have never heard of before; disenfranchised grief. I was to later learn that Kenneth Doka coined this term and wrote about it in his book called Disenfranchised Grief: Recognizing Hidden Sorrow. Doka states that this is “Grief that persons experience when they incur a loss that is not or cannot be openly acknowledged, publicly mourned, or socially supported” (Doka, 1989, pg.4).
Evelyn spoke about how this type of hidden grief operates in adoption and I could instantly see the paralells it had with my situation and donor conceived people's grief. It explained so much of what I had been feeling for the last few years. I felt that I had lost half of my family and the relationships with my father and all of these people, yet I did not feel that I could express this until quite some time later. Even now I do not feel that I am completly understood in this regard. I hid my sorrow, because of many reasons. Firstly, being told that I was so "wanted" and "special" meant that I did not want to show my sadness. From what everyone around me was saying I should be happy that my parents went to so much trouble to have me! There was no way in my mind that I could ever see myself expressing my true feelings, let alone anyone acknowledging my loss and pain.
Even though I am able to speak about my feelings now, my loss is still not acknowledged, it is definately not something that is publically mourned or socially supported. The vast majority of the public are so blinded to the long term effects of this practice. What most see is that it is so wonderful, as it gives a couple just what they wanted, a child to love. That is the happy ending, right? That is what is most important! How could anyone dispute this practice as being anything but good? (note sarcasm)
What I have always wondered is how can anybody, especially those who take for granted knowing their identity and their history, look past the effects seperating someone from their family really has? I often wish I could have the same powers as that guy in the Green Mile. Hold someone's hand (I have often thought this would be great to do with some politicians or fertility doctors), and let them truly feel the pain, sadness and loss that I have over the last 8 years.. all in one hit. I think people would realise then, but mainly people's lack of compassion and unwillingness to put themselves in someone elses shoes means that this practice will continue to fool people. Just like that big fast food chain claims it's meals are "healthy" at any cost, the fertility industry will spout any old line to keep raking in the money. "Sure there are no long term consequences!", "All they need is love", "Everything will be just FINE!" (now give us your money!).
I have thought about this a lot, as you can probably imagine. Something that I think helps to perpetuate this fantasy that donor conception is a fantastic and revolutionary practice are the labels used to change and distort the relationships that truly exist. The word donor for instance is one of them. I find this term highly offensive. He may have donated his sperm to my mother, to my parents, but he did not donate his sperm to me, as I was not yet alive! He is my biological father, and calling him otherwise hides the true connection that we have. This is one reason, I believe, why my loss is not recognised. Everyone says "He is just the DNA", "He did not raise you, so he cannot be your father!", and so on. To that I say bull! No matter what way you look at it he IS my biological father. He is more than just DNA, he is a part of me, my identity and who I am today. I walk with his influence everyday. I carry his traits, his families traits with me everyday. And the other day I remembered that the sperm determines the sex of the resulting child. So he is the reason I am a woman!! He may not have raised me, but he will always be my father. There is no denying it. Call him whatever you want, but I can see that people are just trying to distort reality for their own satisfaction, for their own cause, for their own position.
The fact that T5 is not a part of my life is a major loss to me. Not being able to know him and my paternal family is... indescribably hard.
So this concept of disenfranchised grief gave me something to look to... a name for what I had experienced. I remember coming home and just being blown away by Evelyn's speech. I sat and cried, but this day I cried happy tears. "I am not going mad!!!!", I thought. "I have a name for it, my sadness makes sense! It is real. Thank God!!!"
Sometimes I wish I could have some sort of public ceremony to recognise my loss. But this wouldn't really work. I have thought about this a lot too. T5 may be alive or dead, but I do not know if he is either. And what if he were to appear in my life later on? How could I possibly mourn his absence, if there is the possibility that he might come into my life one day? I feel as though it is so important that my loss and other donor conceived people's losses are acknowledged. I am not sure exactly how. Perhaps a good start is that the public start listening to people like myself and not write us off as a disgruntled few.
I believe that there might only be a few people like myself speaking out even in years to come. It is so hard to do this. I have been to this posting page so many times over the last few weeks and felt physically ill at the thought of writing about this. It takes so much energy, that I don't blame other donor conceived people for sitting back and letting a handful of people speak on their behalf. This is what has happened in the adoption community, here in Victoria, Australia anyway. With time I am hoping however that more people come forward.
I'm reading a book at the moment about an adopted woman. She had a really hard life and chose to write about it so candidly. She reiterated my feelings about why some people (adopted and donor conceived) choose not to venture into finding out about their history: "It is my belief that even when an adoptee claims to be a non-searcher, they are at some level, conscious or not, curious about their origins" (Seitz, 2001, pg.100). People often think that I am prescribing my own experience onto those who say they do not wish to know anything about their true genetic origins when I say "Actually I think they really do want to know and just don't want to open Pandora's box...". However the more I read adoption material, the more I speak to donor conceived people, the more I can see that there is a lot of truth to my instincts about this. All I can think is this: Regardless of what kind of relationship a donor conceievd person might want with their biological parent/s, how can they deny that these people helped to create their identity? How could someone not want to learn more about themselves? People who say they do not wish to know, I believe are using a coping mechanism to survive. And once again, I don't completely think this is bad, each to their own, however I think that for them to even admit that they want to know more would be recognition that they do feel some loss. I believe that for some people it is just far too hard to acknowledge, even to themselves.
Ok. Well that is all I have to say right now. Oh and if you haven't guessed it yet, the answer to that question in the previous post, ("What about children whose parents have died and whom they have not yet met?"), the lecturer replied, "Disenfranchised Grief".
19 comments:
I can easily integrate the concept of disenfranchised grief into my thought process. For emotions so difficult to label I think this does our feelings justice far better than the poorly fitting labels that have been thrown our way.
How can you acknowledge and thus heal from something unnamed? Something society doesn't even recognize as real? Our situations are different yet completely identical in many ways so I understand what you are saying perfectly.
If there are very few donor conceived adults speaking out then kudos to you Rel for being so brave. Keep talking, don't stop. There are a lot of people out here that are holding your hand and most importantly....LISTENING!!!
Horray, you're back!
I am going to echo mia's words because they were so well said.
You have the spirit and strength of a trailblazer - and should be proud.
Thank you Mia. I've been feeling rather disconnected lately, so it's great to hear such supportive words from you.
And thank you too Rhonda.
I hear ya' Rel, me too. Feeling a bit fragile myself these days.
If you ever need an ear (off the blog thing I mean) I am available OK?
Thanks so much Mia! Do you have an email address that i could contact you on privately actually?
We search for the right words and sentences to express our grief, and find that they don't exist. Words and their meanings have to be shared for them to be communicated and understood. So when you attempt to articulate what you feel and discover that society has no 'category' for donor, birth mother and adoptee grief, of course you turn your emotions inwards.
Modern societies deny their biological foundations, because what is important is consumer choice for real, material things. But biology is the essential link between parents and their children, and when that is broken, for whatever reason, there will always be consequences. Unfortunately, society just expects us to 'move on'. If only.
Thank you for sharing your story, I am a mom reunited with my son and although I cant say I relate to not knowing a parent, I do relate to the pain of not knowing a loved one, wondering whether he was dead or alive. Having sadness and not knowing from where it came.
I do believe in the exsitance of denial, I used it as a coping mechanism for many years, it works and its powerful, it makes your mind temporarily forget. I am grateful that it kept me distant from my pain until he was old enough for me to search.
I appricate you sharing, I too sometimes dread writing about my experience, sometimes wanting to just erase it all but then I think about those before me who were brave enough to write and who I read and begin to find myself and heal because of and then I feel I must. So Thank you, I know how hard it can be.
Peter, you are so right when you say that people expect us to just move on as though it is no big deal that we are denied such information. The thing that really bugs me is that most of the time people who say this to me, whether they get along with their family or not, know who their biological family is!! How can they say move on? They are speaking from a priveliged position.
"momseekingpeace", Thank you for your comment :)
"sometimes wanting to just erase it all" - i get that too. Sometimes i wish i could just be in denial.. but that's not me. I would go insane i think. I have to be true to myself and this blog sure helps.
Thank you :)
Thanks for your comment Manuela :)
I love hearing from adoptees!! you guys GET IT! :D
And yup, society will have to face it one day soon. you are right!
I'm so sorry for you pain. I lost my mother when I was four, and because it was so long ago I don't like to ask of her, but I am right there - desperate for any overheard bits of information. I know this is no where near the same, I appreciate that. All I am trying to say is that on one level I understand your grief.
I am donating my eggs to two couples in a about a month. In Britain it is now illegal for this to be done anonymously or for financial gain. Any children born will be able to see identifying information about me, and a note I have written for them. I have also said I would be glad to meet them, if they so wish.
I hope this is enough. Your post has hit home very hard with me.
I thank you for being brave enough to speak out.
Hi Donna,
Thanks for your kind words and I, on some levels, can understand your grief too... although i feel in this case lucky that i got to grow up knowing and being cared for by my mum.
I hope you don't take offense to this, but by donating your eggs you seem to be passing on this fractured family status onto your own biological children. Whilst you may think you are doing a noble and altruistic thing for the adult couples, what do you think your children will feel about having been given away? I know it may be hard to see it in this light, but many donor conceived people that i have spoken to, and including myself, experience similar emotions to that of adoptees in the sense that they were not wanted by their biological parent. Sorry if this is hard to comprehend, i just think it's so important to consider that your biological children, although raised in a loving family and by people who really want them, may not be so happy about their situation... and for them i speak out.
I would hope that if and when you go ahead you are able to have contact with your children from an early age. I don't think it's good enough that donor conceived children are made to wait for contact by their "social" parents (for lack of a better term).
I hope you have read the above with some more understanding. I am not trying to talk you out of your decision, but more so trying to highlight to you why i can see problems arising in the future for your biological children. I wish a donor concieved person were able to speak to my mum before she went ahead with it all.
All the best!
Hi Rel
I will write, shortly, a more in-depth reply in my own blog, in the main text.
Whilst I had thought of the children, if any, conceived from this donation it certainly wasn't on the level I am now.
I have no control, at all, about when, and if, contact will be made between myself my biological children. All I know is that I have a responsibility, and a wish, to do what is best for them at the time.
You are the first person I have come across who has spoken in this way. If I had read this before my journey started, to donate, would I still be doing this now? I honestly don't know. It would certainly be much, much easier not to.
There are no right and wrong answers. I just have to ask myself - am I creating more pain than happiness with this? The answer I have arrived at is no. I sincerely hope that your pain isn't so great that you wish you never existed.
This is a massive and emotive topic so I am going to leave it there, for now. I appreciate I haven't answered all of your questions - I will.
Hi Donna,
"I have no control, at all, about when, and if, contact will be made between myself my biological children. All I know is that I have a responsibility, and a wish, to do what is best for them at the time."
I find this statement completely contradictory. In the sense that you are saying that you are responsible for them, but only at certain times... they are yours, but only when you or they are allowed that. I just don't understand how you could love and raise one child in your home and give others to strangers to raise and nurture and be responsible for. I couldn't fathom giving any children away, whether they start as "just" my eggs or whether i carry them full term.
You are saying that you are responsible for them, yet you are leaving them to deal with this enourmous situation with others.
"I just have to ask myself - am I creating more pain than happiness with this? The answer I have arrived at is no. I sincerely hope that your pain isn't so great that you wish you never existed."
The age old (and in my point of view silly) argument about us donor conceived having to be greatful to be alive, above anything else! I could ask anyone in the world if they were happy to be alive and i am sure most would say yes... I do not know what it's like to not exist, so I can't say either way really.
Whilst you see giving couples a baby such a wonderful thing, that is all you do know for certain. Yes that you are helping to create a life for others, but that this child is yours... and you have no idea in the world how they will feel about their situation. Only they will carry this decision with it's enourmity forever. I don't think that asking someone whether they would rather not be born is helpful or relevant at all. Are you going to ask these children to be grateful? Should you expect them to be? I would hope not.
There is so much more to this practice than helping infertile couples, i wish people could see that..... It's like we are this bandaid for the infertile, to make everything ok... for them! They get what they want, and they create people who have no choice in being severed from their families.
The constant pain i feel is hard to live with. Often i wish i was not donor conceived........... but i do love life. It's just not a nice situation to have been intentionally placed in by my own parents.
Hi Rel
Thank you for your comments.
Clearly you believe that I shouldn't be donating my eggs under the current UK law. I think? Maybe not at all. My only choice is to donate or not. Before the law was changed, from anonymous, there was no real shortage of sperm donors in the UK. Now there are hardly any. Maybe they believe my statement to be contradictory too.
Clearly I don't have the same opinions about donating a child vs an egg. I also know that all donor conceived children won't feel the same way as you do, as adopted children don't.
You seem to think my eggs are being abandoned by me. I know they are being given with love and this is way more than an ego booster for me. Nobody can tell us how we feel or put it in a box.
I could write so much more but I think I have said enough. This is not an argument and I won't treat it as such. I thank you for making me aware of your feelings, I really do. By continuing with this donation I am honestly not dismissing them.
One final thing. I've ditched my blog, it doesn't seem right now. I have written a short letter to the the children conceived from my eggs for the regulating body to keep. I know now it, potentially, needs to be more than this. So I will write down all those things I want to say, for them, and keep it for the future. Thanks Rel.
I'm totally looking at both situations here from the other side of the fence as I've had no real life experience with either of these exact circumstances.
In my case, becomming a mother to the child fathered by my own husband was such a blessing. However, I believe that life exists by miracle with each and every conception. I can't ever imagine why one would feel mistreated by the people that wanted you so badly to be their child that they went to extremes to bring you into this world. I can't comprehend why you would harbour ill feelings for someone willing to give their ownself so that you could be conceived. I do understand how you feel like you have lost someone because you don't know your biological father, BUT in retrospect what misery are you causing your mother by living in such sadness. It's as if you're alive, but you're mad as hell that it didn't happen to suit your emotions. What makes you feel that your emotions of not knowing your bio father are any more important than the emotions of love and want that your mother had. I certainly hope she doesn't know of your ill feelings. I can't imagine how she would feel.
Life is something to be lived, not something to question. As the great John Lennon said, "Life is what happens, while you're busy making other plans." Rel, I feel that you may be missing out on so much joy and happiness by trying to control a situation with your anger that you will never overcome.
With so much war and hate in this world today it is hard for me to see that someone who is clearly a very intelligent soul is living in her self-absorbed world of sadness. There are millions the world over that have not one parent. They have no idea where they came from. Millions who were born to men and women killed by natural or terroist related disasters. I could go on.
I will simply state my opinion of your blog and say that I think it is a sad sad way to go about. You should think of your father and realize that a public ceremony is not needed in order for you to grieve him. You should feel lucky that you have someone in this world that wanted you so badly that they went about getting you here by any means. I think its an awesome reality that eggs and sperm be donated in love to create life. If my God hadn't intended for life to be created in such a way then to me it wouldn't be possible.
Rel, I wonder if you have children of your own? If and when you do I want you to watch them grow and know that they are here for a reason. Life is too precious to dismiss a reason for being.
In closing, I would like to add that as a mother I worry every day about the life I have given to my son. The dangers of the world outside these doors gives me great fear every single day. I know that I was blessed with him for a special reason. I pray that he doesn't live an angered life as an adult because of my wanting his life to exist.
Donna, your gift of life will be appreciated for generations to come.
Rel, I wish you the best of luck in finding a place of happiness.
dandylove, i was eating my breakfast happily until i came upon your comment.
"I've had no real life experience with either of these exact circumstances. "
Again and again, those who are in a privelaged position accusing me of such horrible things. Do you know your mother and father dandylove?
You wrote about me basically having to be GRATEFUL for my life and my parents efforts to have me. I am so sick of this way of thinking. Of course my parents went to a lot of trouble and so do many others. It's a part of life. I am thankful, but i am sick of having to say so. Shouldn't everyone be grateful to be alive??
"I can't comprehend why you would harbour ill feelings for someone willing to give their ownself so that you could be conceived."
I DO NOT have ill feelings towards T5, I am not sure why you say that i do. I have never said that i dislike him in any way. I'm searching for answers about him so that i can learn more about myself, my history, my identity. I would love to meet him and get to know him. I have never disliked him.......... if anything just confused by his absence in my life.
"what misery are you causing your mother by living in such sadness."
I am really offended by your judgements when you don't even know me or my mother! My mum is one of the most amazing people I know. She has been supportive of me with this the whole way, as all mothers should be! She hands out flyers for me, comes to conferences and encourages me to speak out. Do you know why? Because she has taught me to be a strong and HONEST young woman. I am not going to lie about my situation and say that everything is hunky dory when it is certainly not. My mum is proud of what I am doing (ill feelings included), regardless of what you may think.
I would hope that all mothers support their children and encourage them to be honest and speak up for what they believe in. This is something valuable i have learnt from my gorgeous mum.
"Life is something to be lived, not something to question."
People question life daily!! They questions it through God, they question it through science, they question it through progress, they question it through philosophy, through GEOLOGY, through history.......... I love John Lennon but i think to say not to question anything is completely UNhuman!!!
"Rel, I feel that you may be missing out on so much joy and happiness by trying to control a situation with your anger that you will never overcome."
Fair enough that you are only seeing this one facet of my life on display. I am not obsessed, nor unhappy. I do have other things in my life you know! I am actually a really happy person, this is just one part of it, but a huge part that i am working on. And what is wrong with being angry, as long as we deal with it constructively?? I am studying social work to support and advocate for other donor conceived people. I could be off being a miserable sod somewhere, but i chose to do something more with this. I won't justify my "anger" anymore.
And how do you know i won't overcome this? How do you know that T5 won't come forward? Or that i won't get answers that i need? How do you know i won't meet any of my half siblings? No one knows what the future holds.
"self-absorbed world of sadness."
I really dislike your choice of words, seeing as though you really don't know me and as explained above i have a lot more going on in my life than this. So without the full picture i find it offensive that you call me such things. It's not very nice.
You speak about people around the world born to no parents, or war victims etc. You are basically saying that because some people are worse off than me that i should just shut up and deal with it.... Couldn't we say that to many people "ohhh you were abused as a child? well there are some who were abused twice as much, so you shouldn't complain!" There is almost always going to be people worse off than you in the world. This does not mean that we should not speak out and try to make it a better place having lived our own experiences. My creation was an intentional seperation from my entire paternal family and history....... something i will never be ok with. I have most problem with the intentionality of the situation. If it were a mistake, the result of something unfortunate i would learn to live with it perhaps.
"You should think of your father and realize that a public ceremony is not needed in order for you to grieve him."
Are you serious? You have no bloody idea what it's like to be in this situation!! What I need to grieve is a totally personal thing...... the fact that people like yourself can so blatantly dismiss my grief with such little remorse only furthers my grief and the fact that it is disenfranchised. You have done nothing but belittle me and my feelings.
"If my God hadn't intended for life to be created in such a way then to me it wouldn't be possible."
I don't know which God you are talking of but i was raised a catholic. I don't think that the justification of this practice has anything at all to do with God. God created us and gave us gifts. What we choose to do with them is another story. I really don't think God would be a supporter of a practice that causes so much pain. Fertility doctors may think they are God, but they are not. they have taken God's gifts way too far....... Have you seen the movie Gattaca?
"they are here for a reason"
Yes, i agree with you on this one point. I know why I am here. I'm here to support other donor conceived people. I'm content in this and I believe this is why i was born as a donor conceived person.
I don't need your wishes thanks very much. You have done nothing but insult me and everything that i stand for.
I do wish to apologize for insulting you. I felt a certain way when I posted my comment to you and I see now that nobody's opinions matter to you. You are simply on a mission to help others and to go along on your own journey to find peace. I still don't understand why you don't want to take criticism, but you're so willing to criticize.
When you make statements like...
"There is so much more to this practice than helping infertile couples, i wish people could see that..... It's like we are this bandaid for the infertile, to make everything ok... for them! They get what they want, and they create people who have no choice in being severed from their families.
The constant pain i feel is hard to live with. Often i wish i was not donor conceived........... but i do love life. It's just not a nice situation to have been intentionally placed in by my own parents."
I was perhaps confused as the above says to me that you are angry. It reads to me that you are being a little "selfish". Your thoughts made me upset and I stated some reasons why. You were pretty quick yourself to blame a perfect stranger of her wrong doing by donating eggs. What makes it ok for you to speak your opinions and not ok for me to share mine? Afterall, you're the one that puts it all out here in an open blog. Are you honestly suprised that you would get some opposite feedback?
I'd like to make one point clear on your assumption of my thoughts. I paralleled your situation to that of orphans and I in no way meant to make your story any less meaningful than their own. I believe ones abuse could never be compared to another. I do not understand why someone like yourself that grew up with a loving mother in a seemingly good atmosphere would be so angered by what you've been dealt. I don't think my misunderstanding of your feelings is wrong. I didn't, however, mean to offend you in the process.
I commend you for being so passionate and for being honest. I'm proud that your mother is a part of your journey. Left unsaid before it was up for interpretation. Now that you've explained otherwise, I apologize for offending the relationship you have with your mother.
"I really don't think God would be a supporter of a practice that causes so much pain. Fertility doctors may think they are God, but they are not. they have taken God's gifts way too far....... Have you seen the movie Gattaca?"
I too wold like to think that our God wouldn't support a practice that causes so much pain. However, He created life and by doing so He created death. Experiencing a death of a loved one is about the most painful loss I can dream of. You say you live in constant pain. I found that extremely harsh. That's only my opinion though. I feel certain that you could care less about that.
As far as fertility doctors believing that they are God...
I must again quesion your theory. You said yourself that God gave us gifts and we choose how to use them. Do you believe that God provided us with the knowledge of the human body and the practice of science only to create the perfect human? I gather your reference to Gattaca meaning that to you any form of fertility aid is unethical. The perfect mechanical human is a far cry from helping two or one person acheive pregnancy. The decisive trait issue is one thing, but donating an egg or sperm to create life is another.
Now, I see your point. I have a better understanding of why you feel the sadness and anger you feel. I do not understand why you feel so strongly about it. Speaking from my own life experiences it honestly seems to me that you've never been dealt very many hard blows. It seems to you now that this is the worst of the worst. It's not. You have hope of finding your father and for your sake I hope you do. I hope it's a glorious reunion. Then maybe you can go on with your life. There again, it seems to me that you'd be more proactive about finding your father than speaking out against his decision to donate you into this world.
I believe that those willing to donate eggs (which is a timely and painstaking process) so that a woman may experience the growth of life inside her womb...is simply precious. Perhaps the chance that someone known to you as T5 simply made a deposit and never thought twice about you and the brothers and sisters he created for you. I do understand why that would anger you and I'm sorry for making light of that situation.
I will say that when I said I know nothing of this exact eperience I did not mean that I don't know first hand what it's like to be dismissed in life. My parents are currently the parents to their grandson that my sister signed away her rights to. Her decision angers me every day and I see him growing up without his mother or father. The love he has in his heart though is so great. I pray that he chooses a healthy outlook as he gets older. I don't blame him for being mad as hell, but he was brought into this world by two very hateful people and wasn't loved at all by either. I hope he doesn't dedicate his time to speaking out on his misfortune. I pray he finds happiness in this world and can grow into a well adjusted adult. It frightens me that he may one day be as angry as you.
I will end my comments here. I do have one question for you though.
If and when you ever find a time in your life that you want to carry a child, what extremes would you go to in order to give life? Would you ever feel after years of trying to conceive a child naturally that you would seek help from science? Until you want to be a mother and until you have the blessing of feeling that chld grow inside yourself and until you are there to experience that childs first breath...you truly will never ever understand why your views of your own life are questioned by some. I've been blessed with all the above and I will honestly say that when I see my son playing across the room now that I would honestly go to extremes to have brought him here. I would certainly hope he would never take my actions in vain.
So, to you I do apologize for if my opinions were insulting. It sucks that we don't all see the world through rose colored glasses.
I do wish you well, if you think you need those wishes or not.
I pray that you find your father and complete yourself.
So long.
"I still don't understand why you don't want to take criticism"
Perhaps i would take criticism on board if it were coming from someone who knew what they were talking about. You have absolutely no idea what it is like to be donor conceived, so i take you comments with a grain of salt. I have spoken to far many more donor concieved people who are just as angry as me than people such as yourself who are so self righteous to spout such rubbish about me being so angry and how bad that is!
If all of the donor conceived people in the world had a true avenue to voice their anger then they would, beleive me. There will be more of us in the future, who feel this way. It just sucks that at this point in time a handful of us have to cop this nonsense to make people understand.
I really think you should do some more research about donor conceived people and what it's like to be severed from your own family. What it's like to not completely know yourself. It seems that DNA matters only when it is fitting, and that pisses me right off.
And i don't accept your apology as you went on to say what you initially said. That you feel sorry for me! Please, do not.
"You were pretty quick yourself to blame a perfect stranger of her wrong doing by donating eggs."
I don't blame anyone... i simply can't see why people would give away their children, it's as simple as that. They will have to live with their decisions, and so will their children and they are who i feel very sad for.
And i never said it wasn't ok for you to share your opinions. Please show me where i said that? You can have your opinion, as i can have mine, respectfully, although i am not sure why you feel the need to comment on an issue you don't really know about. It would be like me saying to an abuse victim that they will be ok, and to just get on with things. I would never do such a thing as i have no idea what it's like.
Do you think you're the first person to ever have challenged me on this? If i had a dollar for all the opposing arguments i have received over the years.... I am quite comfortable in my beliefs, is that such a bad thing? I have spoken with infertile people, donors, adoptees etc to try to further ground my opinions, so i am not taking this stance based purely on my lived experience. So many people in my situation feel the same...
"I do not understand why someone like yourself that grew up with a loving mother in a seemingly good atmosphere would be so angered by what you've been dealt."
Because believe it or not love doesn't make the world go around! It is not enough, as much as people would like to believe and spout... it is rubbish. If we do not know our own self, how are we to receive love completely????? And there you go again saying that i should just be grateful, shut up and get on with this because that is life! Gosh... sounds like a broken record.
Why can't you deal with the fact that i am unhappy with my situation??? there must be a reason!! Do you not have any compassion?
Can you not understand that myself and others who are donor conceived are hurting and are not happy and so this is why i speak out? If everyone just dealt the hand they were given the world would be an unjust place.
The information about my father is sitting in a filing cabnet on the other side of town and i am being told i have no right to access it. How is this fair? I wish you could experience what it's like. It is DE -HUMANISING!!!!!
You see i really can't understand you. You commend me at one point and insult me at others... how am i to take on what you say seriously??
"You say you live in constant pain. I found that extremely harsh."
You find that harsh?? So you are saying you find my feelings, my reality too much to handle? Well what are you doing here? Honestly, i feel like i am wasting my time trying to explain myself.
I was referencing Gatacca because I think that we are headed in such a direction. It happens already. Go look at one of those horrid websites that trade gametes. You can choose someone based on hair colour, personality, education etc. It is sick. Then there is PGD. Preimplantation Genetic Daignosis. Please don't tell me that's not eugenics! I was also trying to say that fertility drs think they are God because a notable fertility dr in the UK actually spouted such rubbish on a tv program i was a part of. They love the notariaty, the fame, the money........ can't you see how much of an industry this practice is? It is really sick.
And to clear things up, i am not against all forms of fertility treatment. As long as the couples own sperm and egg are used via IVF, i have no problem.
"Speaking from my own life experiences it honestly seems to me that you've never been dealt very many hard blows."
WOW! once again, it seems you know me! it's almost laughable that you can make such obsurd comments Dandylove. You have no idea what i have been through, so please don't think that you do. I am not going to go into the "hard blows" that i have been dealt before.
giving away and trading babies is precious? Yeah, right.
"It frightens me that he may one day be as angry as you."
Really? Why is that? And how do you know how angry i am, relatively speaking? As i said previously this is one facet of my life, yet you have looked over that fact. I have evrey right to be angry, but as i also said i am using my anger constructively, instead of it turning inwards and me paying for it physically or via an addiction... it happens you know. It has been recorded to happen to adoptees who choose not to search or deny their pain. You should read Nancy Verrier's book the Primal Wound. Educate yourself about all of this some more and then get back to me and maybe then i might think about taking on board you criticsm!
"If and when you ever find a time in your life that you want to carry a child, what extremes would you go to in order to give life? Would you ever feel after years of trying to conceive a child naturally that you would seek help from science?"
You see that's the thing. I would not go to such extremes that i am compromising some one else's child, or identity or life. I like to believe that I have more respect for life than to go to any costs to accquire a baby. At this point in time i do not want children. I would much prefer to foster children who need my help, than bring another into this world for my own selfish reasons. Having lived this life as a donor concieved person i can tell you that i will never ever donate nor receive donated gametes. I would not intentionally create a person for my own benefit.
And I really think that having been a child myself is enough experience to go on. Not all women on earth are meant to procreate. We are here for other reasons too! Like to help others, and make the world a better place!!!!
Thanks for giving my arguments a work out. It was about time someone came on here and challenged my stance.
For it's only when this occurs that my beliefs solidify :)
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